Will you buy Thiaf if there is no Garrett?

Dia on 25/5/2009 at 12:44

I wasn't trying to 'brush you off' Ostriig! All I meant was that maybe you'd better understand why so many Thief fans feelings re: Garrett as the protagonist better if you've played all three games. More like frustration on my part because I felt I failed to get my point across in a logical manner. No insults or slights intended, honest.

Quote Posted by Morte

The Magpie is making a point (with which I agree entirely) about stretching out things beyond what the material can bear. There's only so much you can put a character through before things become silly. The first three games form a fairly neat trilogy with a beginning, middle and end, and a definite arc for the main character. I'd much rather they didn't mess with that than create some contrived reason for Garrett to revert to his old ways.

I realize that Magpie was making a point, but thought it was funny anyhow (for some reason it brought 'Rocky XXIV' to mind). And yes, I agree in that instance. Guess I'm just getting burnt out with the focus of some of the threads here in this forum which insist on dividing Thief fans into two camps. And like a dummy I always fall for it, thinking that everyone shares my belief that all are entitled to their own opinions (inthat I don't go around telling people who disagree with me to STFU). I've made it clear from the first that my opinions are just that; I wasn't trying to cram my views down anyone else's throat, just trying to answer questions as to why I feel the way I do about the Thief games, Garrett, etc. and so on. Puritanical? Oh well.

Bottom line is that I know I probably will play T4 when (and if) it's released, (unless of course EM totally massacres it and turns it into a 3rd person only game, a modern-day now-Garrett-is-a-gansta-thug type thing, or if EM makes it nothing more than an FPS). I've played FMs wherein the main character wasn't Garrett and some of them were very well executed and interesting. Would I spend money on a game I didn't enjoy? No. TDS was the last time I did that and I wish I could've gotten my 50 bucks back.

Ostriig on 25/5/2009 at 13:14

Sorry about that, then. Guess I got carried away and read too much into it.

Andarthiel on 25/5/2009 at 14:07

I chose yes but really it depends on how well the game is made. I mean T2X wasn't Garrett but that was a really awesome game. It also depends how well the story is done and how well the replacement character is done.

Queue on 25/5/2009 at 14:58

Quote Posted by Bulgarian_Taffer

Hm... Is Thief 2X Garrett? Is CoSaS Garrett? Is the Hammerite Imperium Garrett? Is the Dark Mod Garrett? Nay, but we all enjoy playing or seeing these projects to happen.

All of these are certainly great, but they are not "Thief"--they are spinoffs inside of the Thief world (like "The Misadventures of Sheriff Lobo" from "B.J. and the Bear". Fun stuff, but not the same...). Take this analogy, would a Hitman game be "Hitman" without 47? No. Why? Because we have become invested in that character's story-line, we care about the character.

And for what it's worth... I agree with every word Dia said.

The Magpie on 25/5/2009 at 15:00

Quote Posted by Dia

I don't go around telling people who disagree with me to STFU

No, you don't. You're clearly more tolerant and polite than I am, since I don't believe that all opinions are equally valid, and sometimes have trouble differentiating between the opinion and the opiner. So I might owe you a clarification:

I told people who agreed with me regarding the principle of reusing a character ad infinitum leading to silliness, but who still voted "no" to STFU. Kindly, I might add. I find that people whose opinions maintain a semblance of consistency most often are the ones worth listening to, especially when they're in conflict with my own opinions. The rest would often need filtering, preferably by themselves realising that they're self-contradictory and adjusting their views so that they make sense before speaking up again. Or I should have to add the continued noise to my ignore list.

Note that even though I'm in the extreme side of the freedom of expression spectrum, I have the exact same problem in political discussions where people promote incoherent ideologies. Thus, I'm a big fan of the reductio ad absurdum debating technique. And of a little bluntness for effect.

So, Queue, tell us, where do you stand in the "Garrett should/shouldn't be the protagonist of Thief 8" question?

--
L.

Queue on 25/5/2009 at 15:21

Quote Posted by The Magpie

So, Queue, tell us, where do you stand in the "Garrett should/shouldn't be the protagonist of Thief 8" question?

Hopefully dead of colon cancer from all those damned deer legs by then.

Morte on 25/5/2009 at 15:23

Quote Posted by Ostriig

A board of TTLG, nonetheless, and I was curious about the actual reasons behind said reactions. No harm intended.

Heh, I wasn't offended in any way. I'm likely to be far nastier about puritan attitudes myself.

Quote Posted by Queue

Counterpoint: Final Fantasy. Every game (or nearly, anyway) features new protagonists, yet they all share a similar aesthetic.

I don't see why Eidos Montreal couldn't change the perception of Thief from "adventures with Garrett" to "intelligent immersive sims about thieves" with Thief 4 if it's good enough a game.

Queue on 25/5/2009 at 15:38

True. But Thief has been a singular protagonist (a singular point of view) from the beginning. The plot in Thief is Garrett's story (like Tomb Raider being Lara Croft's story). Whereas (and I could be wrong on this, but it's what I remember) Final Fantasy was constructed to be told from four different points of view.

Dia on 25/5/2009 at 16:12

Quote Posted by The Magpie

Note that even though I'm in the extreme side of the freedom of expression spectrum, I have the exact same problem in political discussions where people promote incoherent ideologies. Thus, I'm a big fan of the reductio ad absurdum debating technique. And of a little bluntness for effect.

An attitude I usually find interesting as well as amusing. (I've been suffering from caffeine deprivation, so I'm just a tad cranky lately. Sorry.) And I'm really not always as tolerant as you give me credit for being (unless you were being sarcastic and in that case STFU ..... uhhmmm ... please. :p ;) ); sometimes I end up not posting because I know I'll come off just sounding like a raving haridan with more bile than common sense. I'm all for freedom of speech; I just don't want to see the T4 forum degenerate into a battleground where war is waged between the different 'camps' of Thief fans and opinions aren't stated as much as they are used as weapons. I've cringed more than a few times at some of the thread titles here, thinking OhGod, this one's gonna turn into a free-for-all for sure. Thankfully everyone's managed to keep their cool (mostly), which oddly enough restores my faith in my fellow Taffers every time.

Yes; I'm set in my ways when it comes to Garrett being the one and only Master Thief. Never thought of myself as a 'Puritan' though. But it does fit, doesn't it (not to be confused with 'prude', mind you)? So be it. I would play T4 even if it didn't have Garrett as the main character, but buy it? I highly doubt it. Unless they changed the title to 'Burglar', which is another thing entirely. ;) :p For me, it just wouldn't be the same. (And yes; I'm working on the whole trying-to-accept-change-gracefully thing.)

That said; Group hug please. (And watch where you put those hands ........ yeah, I'm lookin' at you, Queue.)

P.S. I hear ITT that T8 will re-tell the whole Thief saga from Karras' POV. Confirm/deny?
:cheeky:

P.P.S I rather liked Queue's analogy. Well said Q.

TTLG really needs a kissy-faced smiley. Ya know?

Queue on 25/5/2009 at 16:23

I swear, it wasn't me!

...it's hard being a pervert in an Obama world.