Witcher Re-Release "Enhanced"

Zillameth on 19/2/2008 at 04:34

Quote Posted by dvrabel

Retailers have around 30% gross margin which leaves 70% of the retail price to the publisher and developer. If the witcher sold for on average for $30 [1] then CDProjekt would make around $13 million dollars of revenue for a single title. This is enough to fund more than one game (even at today's production costs[2]).

Now this is just silly. Where is production and distribution (you know, actually making those DVDs and taking them to shops)? Where is marketing? Advertisements are very, very expensive, and they did advertise this game on TV. Oh, and sending all those people to all those presentations at all those expos - that's not free, either. And the actual food chain is: consumer - goverment (VAT/GST tax!) - retailer - distributor - publisher - producer. The only advantage CD Projekt has is that they are their own publisher and distributor in Poland.

Quote Posted by dvrabel

[1] Amazon.com are still selling The Witcher for $50 dollars so this is a conservative estimate.

Not really. For instance, Polish retail prices are lower than American. In this case - 100 zloty (40$ with current exchange rates). I don't know Russian prices, but I guess games are even cheaper there, because they need to if they are to compete against piracy.

Quote Posted by dvrabel

[2] A (very rough) ballpark estimate: 35 staff @ $40,000 per year for 5 years is $7 million.

Very rough indeed (although labour costs in Poland are still a bit lower than your estimate, especially with all the tax evasion that local GameDev companies get away with). Why just 35 staff? Manual lists some 350 entries from CD Projekt alone (including some repeated names and about 30 thank-yous - and only a few of them actually worked on this game from start to finish). And where is all the outsourcing - motion capture, FMV, just to name the most expensive stuff? Do you have any idea how much FMV costs? The intro sequence is about five minutes long, and they hired one of two best companies there are in Poland.

You see, I have the advantage of actually having worked in this industry for seven years, and having (incomplete) access to all kinds of information (official, unofficial, and plain rumours). And when I say 600 thousand barely breaks even, it's because that's what I've been told by people who work at CD Projekt. Are you going to bet on a possibility that they are poorly informed?

Oh, and for your information, usually the bulk of a game's sales occurs in first three weeks.

Koki on 19/2/2008 at 07:34

Quote Posted by Ben Gunn

I loev Witcher

Admitting that your product has flaws big enough to warrant a re-release is never a good marketing move.

Not only that, a publisher is hiring developer to make a game in a certain time frame. After the game is made, it's shipped and sold, and after that it's just a patchfest. Unless the publisher is being a total dick(i.e. Activision with Bloodlines), and it was not in the case of The Witcher, coming out of the blue after two months and saying "Here is another, slightly better version of that" is a very fucking unprofessional thing to do. If they needed more time, then they should ask the developer for more time.

Yeah, I have shit-tinted glasses and no glass at all and I don't buy the "Making the game like players want it" stuff. You make the game like you want to make it, whether it's good or not is for everyone to decide.

june gloom on 19/2/2008 at 07:38

Koki, I've been posting on GenGaming for something over a year and I have yet to ever see you post anything positive by my recollection.

It's nice to see you admit it though.

Muzman on 19/2/2008 at 08:26

Quote Posted by Zillameth

Every other artistic industry has vague figures beyond production costs when determining something's profitability, but games have to account for every penny? (perhaps everyone should, but that's not the point) A lot of it's BS, particularly in movies, but it really is hard to decide what costs an individual production is responsible for. Being at the disadvantage of self publishing does make this sort of thing interesting from the point of view of their survivability. But no one ever costs the entire company to see if a game is breaking even, that's about as meaningless as underdoing it. Any game company with 320 staff has more than one thing on the go at a given time.
(and if the people you know are anything but CD Projekt's accountants then it's very possible they are off the mark, let's face it)

Anyway, this is kinda interesting. It's like admitting the english release was a but of a dud at least. It does make you wonder why they released it like that in the first place, but it's good it's being done. By and large people give up on their games once they are released (out of necessity often enough) but it's not a good thing.

Zillameth on 19/2/2008 at 08:57

You know, it's the kind of comment that makes my hands fall right down to earth with a thunderous noise. Go publish a game yourself, if you know better.

dvrabel on 19/2/2008 at 09:36

Quote Posted by Zillameth

Now this is just silly.

Well, yes. But it seemed preferable to present some figures rather than each side of the discussion simply asserting their opinion on the level of commercial success (or not).

Ben Gunn on 19/2/2008 at 10:34

Quote Posted by Koki

I m n idiot

Spot on, mate.

Angel Dust on 19/2/2008 at 10:39

This is great news! I am particularly looking forward to the new dialog animations and the extra character models.

EvaUnit02 on 19/2/2008 at 12:42

Japanese console/arcade developers released enhanced versions of existing games all the time (eg Konami and especially Capcom). Sure you couldn't patch console games until this generation (not counting Xbox1), but I don't see this practice slowing down either (eg Capcom will certainly never stop). PC developers shouldn't be crucified for doing the same.

fett on 19/2/2008 at 14:40

How do you guys not understand that a game gets pushed out the door by the publisher before the developer is finished? Do you need a list?

Thief 2
DX:IW
Dark Messiah
Bioshock (the whole 2k security thing)
Etc.

Developers will keep working on games forever. The publishers push them out the door whether they're ready or not because they don't give a fuck if it's got bugs or performance issues. They want their money back on the investment as quickly as possible. How many times have you heard devs say, "We really needed another 3 months?"

It's not quite as simple as going to the publisher and asking for another few months to get the dialogue just right. Most publishers would blink and ask, "There's dialogue?" :confused: