Wizard of ID, Carmack keeps his word. - by Volitions Advocate
Matthew on 23/8/2011 at 14:40
Oh sorry! I mean 'identification' rather than 'iD Software' that's my fault. :p
Vernon on 23/8/2011 at 14:55
Quote Posted by lost_soul
That is why you see almost no level editors with games these days
(
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_level_editors)
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no one releases source code,
You're posting about nobody releasing code in a thread about someone releasing code!
Amazon doesn't release the code for Dynamo, Microsoft doesn't release the code for Windows. It is how these companies make money. Tricks of the trade can exist amongst some backend systems guys for years and they won't share it because it is what puts bread on their tables.
That being said, this thread is about id releasing source for a very good engine, that is presumably full of very cool optimisations and other tricks. It takes money to have those tricks shoehorned into an engine. The person that coded those tricks has to get paid so he can write more of them.
Notch coded Minecraft in lwjgl. (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OpenGL_programs) Here's a non-exhaustive list of games (and apps) that use OpenGL. (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openal#Applications) These games use OpenAL. A lot of these games have their entire codebase available, e.g. warzone and spring, a lot of id titles. You can often license an SDK from a studio (e.g. Bohemia Interactive, Epic) and code your own game with their engine. Why do they sell it rather than release it to the great unwashed? (
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjZRAvsZf1g) So the developers get paid for being good at what they do. Nevermind the fact that innovation is what built all the games you ceaselessly cry about. Should games developers just draw a line under it all and work with what they have?
How about all future games being built in dromed? :thumb:
Why do you even play proprietary games? The penny should surely have dropped for you many, many years ago. You're a bit slow to catch on!
I suggest you listen to the Carmack video again. He points out that he didn't want to work on bugfixes and optimisation of old engines - he wanted to work on new, interesting stuff and let some lackey do the support stuff. Why? Because Carmack wanted to devote his life to writing cutting-edge code that would change gaming (and software in a wider sense) forever. It would have been a bit of a waste if he (and others like him) spent their lives worrying about fixing up games to run on your gimp lunix p3
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everyone is tied to an online system that allows devs/publishers to take your game away when they want you to buy something new.
:tinfoil:
Either stop buying games and play free ones, pirate the old shit like everyone else or stop crying.
lost_soul on 23/8/2011 at 15:09
"I suggest you listen to the Carmack video again..."
Exactly. This is exactly how things SHOULD work. If they're not going to support an old product that many of us have paid for, continue to enjoy, and will be enjoying for a very long time thanks to TDM, they should let others fix any problems and maintain it.
I never said the tech should be open from day 1. I just feel that it is wrong to leave your paying customers with an unfixable mess. You know, morality and all that.
catbarf on 23/8/2011 at 15:47
Quote Posted by lost_soul
Not particularly. How are they going to sell you a new game if you can keep on enjoying your favorite old games forever? How would they sell you something new if you could fix all the short-comings and create infinite missions in the old version to turn it into exactly what you want?
1. Technology marches on, sequels fix the problems of the previous games and add new features, etc. A company that intentionally kills their products isn't going to generate goodwill and get sales on the next game. And your assertion that people don't buy new games if the old ones work is pure and utter bullshit. Half-Life 2, Thief 2, all the CoDs, System Shock 2, why the fuck do I even need to give examples.
2. I can't believe I have to say this, but volunteer amateurs rarely create anything that surpasses what a team of professionals with funding can do. The idea that, with the right tools, amateurs would always be able to create more content and better than what the original developers could do is laughable.
If you really think that developers hate the people that buy their games and go out of their way to make games so that they can be disabled on the assumption that everyone will then go obligingly buy the next product, your head is rammed *at least* three miles up your own ass. Developers are every bit as passionate about the games they make as the gamers who buy them, and are completely aware of how draconian some publisher-forced DRM schemes are, because believe it or not, devs are gamers too.
lost_soul on 23/8/2011 at 15:51
If you're a big enough company who controls enough of the market, generating ill-will with customers is irrelevant. The customer will come back to your products because you control the franchise, or the technology, or the operating system regardless.
Not saying I agree with it. It is just how things are.
catbarf on 23/8/2011 at 17:08
Quote Posted by lost_soul
If you're a big enough company who controls enough of the market, generating ill-will with customers is irrelevant. The customer will come back to your products because you control the franchise, or the technology, or the operating system regardless.
Because nobody would ever switch to another franchise or OS after getting burned by one, right?
june gloom on 23/8/2011 at 18:38
What does CCCToad have to do with anything?
Eldron on 24/8/2011 at 08:15
Quote Posted by lost_soul
If you're a big enough company who controls enough of the market, generating ill-will with customers is irrelevant. The customer will come back to your products because you control the franchise, or the technology, or the operating system regardless.
Not saying I agree with it. It is just how things are.
And they give you aids too.
Renzatic on 24/8/2011 at 08:43
Or at least HIV. The virus that causes AIDS.
CCCToad on 24/8/2011 at 11:25
Quote Posted by catbarf
Because nobody would ever switch to another franchise or OS after getting burned by one, right?
No, they won't.
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