Huckeye on 25/10/2007 at 00:46
I think this is a testament to how I have changed as I have grown older, but on first play through I loved every mission equally across all 3 games. After many replays I now find all non human missions to be ones that I want to hurry through. both final missions in the first two games especially and the underground, fishy lizards from DS.
On first play through, the only fault I found on any mission is the replay of masks/casing and the bugs those missions had.
Even now, I can enjoy a good undead mission, but only once, whereas I can play through a good mansion level several times.
Sypha Nadon on 25/10/2007 at 01:52
It's weird, but a lot of the "monster" Dark Project missions I HATED the first time I played (such as "Bonehoard" and "Escape") I've really come to like over the years. I used to really dislike the Thieves Guild also but I ahve to give it some props as it's one of the few missions from the first game that I can still get lost in. Weakest moments of TDP were probably the first half of "Strange Bedfellows" (though I think that mission picks up in the catacombs) and "Maw of Chaos" (which I just didn't think was weird enough... Constantine's mansion was done much better). Okay, my least favorite mission in TDP is probably "The Haunted Cathedral" though I do like "Return to the Cathedral" a lot.
Though I prefer Thief 2 to Thief 1 I do have to admit that it has more weaker missions than the first game. "Running Interface" is pretty boring, "Trace the Courier" I've never been a fan of, and the three missions that follow "Precious Cargo" are a real drag (though the game redeems itself at the very end with Soulforge, which I still think is one of the top 3 Thief missions of all time).
Not a great fan of the TDS missions. The Inn stage was too short and easy, the castle was utterly generic and nothing we haven't seen before, the pagan stage was unappealing to look at, etc. There was a lot of variety however in terms or architecture: a clocktower, a museum, an insane asylum, and so on. I just wish some of those stages had appeared in the first two games!
So I guess I'd have to say that "Casing the Joint" is the worst by far. Which is weird because you would think that with four people working on it it would have turned out better? Or maybe they just had to rush it.
DX-455 on 25/10/2007 at 17:54
Why are casing/masks frequently referred to as unfinished?
jtr7 on 25/10/2007 at 19:05
Because Casing literally was not finished before it was released. They got it as far as they could and had to let it go. It's also been said that the designers weren't working cohesively on it, and it suffered in various ways for it. Besides having two missions that share too much in common back-to-back, there are things that don't make sense, like the ghosts and the puzzle being in both missions, no matter what you do.
DJ Riff on 26/10/2007 at 07:23
When I was playing Thief-2 for the first time, I thought that not Casing/Masks missions were rushed and unfinished, but Gervasius's mansion and exhibition was. And not the devs were to blame, but Mechanists and steward Duma. And every mistake I saw just fit the atmosphere of rushy work in progress and time limit. :cool:
Muzman on 26/10/2007 at 09:51
Quote Posted by DX-455
Why are casing/masks frequently referred to as unfinished?
additionally to what jtr7s saying, the evidence is all over the place; badly placed textures, buggy scripting, lamps in mid air, lamps in mid air and backwards (like they were hastily placed just to get an object count for the mission, then forgotten about), fog and room brushing seem to need tidying up in places. Things like that.
I should add I'm one of the...oh I dunno...three people who actually likes those missions rather a lot, but I am and I do.
Zillameth on 26/10/2007 at 14:51
I've never really liked Soulforge. When I played it for the first time, I left it half-finished for some two weeks, and only returned to it, because I really wanted to finish the game as whole. To me, this mission was too large and too empty, and yet it had too many enemies, too tight security, and so on. Some areas looked like riddles, rather than real places, and I felt like I was being pushed along the only proper path. Interestingly, while Karras was annoying as a person, the fact he was babbling constantly was not.
I liked Casing the Joint and Masks, and I never felt they were extraordinarilly bugged. But that may be because back then local releases of games were often delayed by a few months, so usually they came already patched. I realise it's practically the same mission played twice in a row, but I seem to have high tolerance to things like that, as long as the narrative provides a convincing explanation.
Shipping and Receiving is among my favourites. I like to think of it as a series of minimissions with a common theme.
As for Dark Project, I didn't like the escape from Constantine's mansion at all. I liked the Lost City! I don't have Thief Gold, so I cannot compare the two versions, but I don't see how this mission could be made any better than it originally was.
As for Deadly Shadows, the older I get, the more this game plays on my nerves. And I don't mean nuclear footprints, loot glint, arrow trails and such - that's just the times we live in, modern games are supposed to be idiot-proof. What I really cannot digest is the general awkwardness of pretty much everything. It feels like a poorly directed movie. And I can't really say which mission I don't like most, because I can't even remember some of them.
Maybe the forbidden library. It's not difficult, nor is it large, but I'm not used to ghosting, so it felt like a significant effort. And after that, after getting to the last room right on the top of the structure,
[SPOILER]there was no big secret to learn. The whole purpose of this level was to steal the valuables, which is stupid, because Garrett had been openly warned he would be considered responsible for all irregularities, and to learn a few bits of backstory that I had already known, because I had played previous two games.[/SPOILER]
On the other hand, I liked the Pagan mission, the one with sewers and a ruined house. Especially the house. Isn't this the only original mission located in what looks like a suburban area?
Ahkaskar on 26/10/2007 at 15:26
TDP (I have Gold for what it's worth) and TDS didn't have any missions that bothered me. I could also add that I'm probably one of a small number that thought TDS's control mechanics were fine, although it did feel like it lacked a little polish on the smoothness of certain actions. (Referring moreso to wall-climbing) But in TDS's defense, no Thief game has ever felt totally polished to me.
The worst mission, in my opinion, had to be Soulforge in TMA. The level really didn't feel complete. I felt like I was playing a ton of areas that were simply pushed together, like developer test levels hastily assembled into a grand puzzle. Each area seemed counter-intuitive to what I had been doing since the beginning of the game, like Thief had become a platform-puzzle game rather than a sneaking-thieving-puzzle game.
I didn't really like TMA in general, actually. I'd rather have had the labyrinthine levels infested with zombies ala TDP.
Meisterdieb on 28/10/2007 at 23:46
TDP did't have any bad missions; the one I least like would be Undercover. It was still kinda fun, but it somehow seemed unfitting.
Even in TMA I can't point my finger at any mission.
The ones that put me off the most would be:
1. Sabotage (although it looks great it had too much of pointless running around and was a little too jump-and-runny for my taste)
2. Kidnap (just for the reason that the Lost City had lost all it's flair from the previous game.
3. Casing (although I liked the idea of casing, it came a little late in the game. That mission just slowed down the flow of the other ones - imho poinless and meaningless at that stage.)
In TDS I generally liked the missions because they mostly had fantastic athmospheres and just looked great. But too many of them (most of the game) just was too linear and many missions felt like jump-and-run while making no sense whatsoever (Clockwork Tower anyone?)
Worst missions
1) Clockwork Tower (as said above, didn't feel real)
2) Keeper Compound (too small, and the Keepers just seemed...moronic, althoght it was kinda fun)
The ones I enjoyed were the Museum, and the Cradle (as much as you can "enjoy" that mission)
Bakerman on 29/10/2007 at 09:34
Well, I'm only partway through TMA, so I haven't faced up to the ones people seem to dislike most (Soulforge, Casing, Masks).
I'd have to say the one I just hate most right now is Courier. Mainly because I'm stuck in the marketplace on Normal :P.
I don't really dislike any of the missions from TDP - I hated them when I was playing them, but when I look back I see what a great experience the whole game was. I mean, the first time you go into the Bonehoard, go down, down down... the first time I saw a Burrick, I just sort of stood there and freaked out. I still fear Burricks :P. I wasn't at all worried about the 'Garrett, action hero' side of the level at all, actually.
Constantine's mansion was a great level for that - you go up and gradually get more disturbed :P. By the time I had the sword, I was ready to seriously leg it!
So, favourite 3:
-Bafford's, for the warm fuzzy feeling I get when I replay it ;)
-The Sword, for sheer 'what the...' factor (Escape! too)
-Lost City because of Garrett's brilliant wit ;)
I actually hate the Trickster servants, but those levels were just so atmospheric. Especially in Escape! You're starting on the ground floor and think 'yeah, this'll be easy'... and then the door's locked... and you go down... and see the freak show... :P
And I just have to mention Garrett's comment as you find the tower with the fire stone in the Lost City. Brilliant writing and voice acting...
Worst 3, so far:
-Courier (I'll learn to love it...)
-Return to the Cathedral, because I hate scavenger hunts. Atmosphere was brilliant, though
-Strange Bedfellows becaue of the stupid Hammerite priest :P. That was one of the levels where I had to resort to a walkthrough, along with RTC...
