Vasquez on 11/12/2012 at 20:43
Validation? No, I just meant that whenever we're in a new kind of cultural/behavioral environment, it takes some adjusting before we can feel at ease.
SubJeff on 11/12/2012 at 21:16
Well yes, but is the Pope Catholic?
Pyrian on 11/12/2012 at 21:44
Quote Posted by Vasquez
Validation? No, I just meant that whenever we're in a new kind of cultural/behavioral environment, it takes some adjusting before we can feel at ease.
We can get used to sleeping on concrete, that doesn't make it equivalent in comfort to memory foam. For most people, getting dressed is a significant aesthetic improvement. (Beautiful women have my full permission to walk around naked.) Walking around where people dress differently is not going to have the same impact as walking around where people don't dress.
Phatose on 11/12/2012 at 21:56
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
The difference between this and other behaviours is naked bodies are involved in primal biological responses and so our reaction to them is not simply a matter of preference.
I liken it to your choice of clothes, when you wear them; fluffy jumper - your choice, jacket of nails - anti-social.
Sex is a very personal issue and I just don't want to have to test my preferences and visceral responses all the time. Yeah, you can argue that bikinis, short skirts, tight yoga pants etc do the same thing but there is still an element of modesty in all these cases.
I question both parts of this. From a biological standpoint, nakedness is the default state of existence. Anything biologically keyed on simply being naked is going to accomplish nothing - every other species is always naked, and we've only taken on wearing clothes in what, the last 100,000 years maybe? Hardly seems long enough for evolution to make clothes all that important. It's necessarily social.
Beyond that, I'd argue that many clothes are actually less modest then nakedness. Being naked is not sexual in and of itself, while a fair amount of clothes are designed specifically for the purpose of sexualization.
SubJeff on 11/12/2012 at 23:53
For human beings at our current stage of evolution nakedness is most definitely not the default state because clothing has meant we have evolved to be hairless and soft and so largely defenseless against the elements.
Yes there are a lot of clothes that aim to enhance sexual attraction but they also serve to entice rather than to lay it on a plate.
Al_B on 11/12/2012 at 23:59
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
clothing has meant we have evolved to be hairless and soft and so largely defenseless against the elements.
Are you sure about that? That would imply that in hot regions where clothing is not needed as much that people should be extremely hirsute but there seems to be pretty much the same variation in body hair (more or less) everywhere.
SubJeff on 12/12/2012 at 00:24
No it doesn't imply that. Clothing is likely to come about out of protective utility but more so in some than others. Then it will have become the social norm which isn't constrained by climate boundaries, then evolution occurs and you shed what you don't need.
And even where it isn't needed to keep out the heat or cold its still useful as a physical protection against animals and plants.
In actual fact if you look at many of the warmer regions of the earth there is less hair in the natives - Africa and the Far East for example.
Al_B on 12/12/2012 at 00:30
Agreed - so I'm really not sure I understand what point you were making when you said that clothing meant we evolved to be hairless instead of the other way around.
SubJeff on 12/12/2012 at 00:37
What?
Al_B on 12/12/2012 at 00:56
You stated "clothing has meant we have evolved to be hairless and soft and so largely defenseless against the elements" implying that clothing has caused us to lack (body) hair and lose natural defenses. You're now stating the opposite - that clothing is the norm because it helps us compensate for environmental conditions (which is a far more reasonable assumption IMHO) but I'm still puzzled by the point you were originally trying to make.
