all on 23/2/2008 at 09:53
I want to know what you think about the hand mages. Would they fight against the undead if they were to attack the city on a really large scale, or would they abstain, giving the interest some mages have for necromacy?
Digital Nightfall on 23/2/2008 at 11:42
I think they'd either shut themselves in until things settled down, or just pick up and leave.
nicked on 23/2/2008 at 12:26
according to Emil's Thief 2 Gold plans, the necromancers were an offshoot of the Hand brotherhood who were cast out for practising dark arts. So I'd say the Hand brotherhood are against undead in theory, but I doubt they'd help the city out with it's problems, they are far too self-involved.
jtr7 on 23/2/2008 at 18:27
If it reached catastrophic levels again, I think the Keepers would risk stepping in again. They are/were observing the Hand Mages, and they gave them the Earth Talisman to protect, so if anybody could influence the Hand to act, they could. They may even offer to return the Earth Talisman, and maybe the Water Talisman (those Fire Mages needed to be cooled off), and put the Mages on retainer. :p
all on 23/2/2008 at 21:36
Ah, good point jtr7. But do the hand mages really want the earth talisamn that much? I was under the impression it didn't serve much anymore after the cathedral wards were unlocked.
Any other ideas on what could get the mages to act, instead of shuting themselves off? Would the keepers be the only influence?
jtr7 on 23/2/2008 at 21:46
The Mages were looking for the other Talismans, and the elemental power contained in them was perfect fit for the Mages purposes. Now, an expedition of 6 FIRE, 4 AIR, 2 EARTH, and 1 WATER Mages discovered Karath Din for themselves, but they left for some reason. But they know about it. If they don't shut themselves into their towers, they could go back to the not-so Lost City.
Solabusca on 23/2/2008 at 22:41
Quote Posted by jtr7
The Mages were looking for the other Talismans, and the elemental power contained in them was perfect fit for the Mages purposes. Now, an expedition of 6 FIRE, 4 AIR, 2 EARTH, and 1 WATER Mages discovered Karath Din for themselves, but they left for some reason. But they know about it. If they don't shut themselves into their towers, they could go back to the not-so Lost City.
You're assuming they got out, jtr7. I don't think they did.
I'd suggest they got in through secret means, and only found the site through their extensive researches (perhaps even using any of the magic open to them - tunnels created by the Earth mages, phasing through rock, etc.)
But getting out? I don't think anyone but Garrett did. Perhaps whatever dark forces buried KD got them - that Cthulhu statue looms large in my mind; maybe there's more than just burricks and elementals down there. Something seemed to drive the Keeper expedition to madness during their own explorations...
As to the OP's question - I think the mages would, as Digi suggests, do only as much as necessary to protect themselves. Wall up the towers, and leave the rest of the City to their own devices. If it was a coven of necromancers operating in the City, they might try to take action against them (as it's suggested they were considering with regards to Azran), but I don't think they'd put themselves in the way of any danger.
.j.
jtr7 on 23/2/2008 at 22:56
Hmmm. I had considered that they may have had a confrontation with the Mechanists, especially with this conversation, which I used to think may have been about Garrett, but I'm even less convinced, now:
mc31504A: "With mine own eyes I saw it! 'Twas a scroll, not less than a hundred years of age...!"
mc21504B: "What? Did thy mysterious visitors whisk in and out again, and never tarry to take up the many riches here?"
mc31504C: "Likely they were but grave-robbers, seeking the cheapest of profits--gold and jewels. Too lazy t'dig for the true treasure herein. And too foolish to recognize it, even if they found it."
mc21504D: "Thou art, by far, too gullible, Sabine. 'Twixt the burricks and the beasts of living fire, what man could survive here alone?"
mc31504E: "And he moved quickly, mayhap."
mc21504F: "Oh... and I suppose thy visitor had a lung of steel to swim 'neath the waves, and thusly find his way in? Come... none could make their way here without the marvels of Lord Karras' creations. No. I think thou hast been taken in by our brothers' humors."
The Cthulhu statue has always had me wondering, too. The place didn't seem nearly as deadly and horrible as the Keepers journals suggested. The Mechanists knew of the burricks and fire elementals, but seemed to defeat them, and were shipping stuff in and out of the K-D Site on a regular basis. Mysteries upon mysteries.
I shall add that, the Hand Mages wouldn't fight for The City, but to further their cause, their selfish needs. They are there for a reason, they have little respect for "the Commons", and only because they do prefer isolation do they allow a group of "Common" guards to work for them. Most telling, I think, is that they have Capt. Regalio on a crusade to recover the Talismans, when they would be more effective. Yet they stay in their MageKeep and Towers. They don't like the fact that The City's sewers reach all the way to them. No, they are there to further their own purposes. It wouldn't surprise me that the epicenters of necromantic energy sparked something in Azaran--inspired him.
jtr7 on 26/2/2008 at 00:23
The Hand Mages have glyphs, the Pagans have glyphs, the Mechanists have glyphs, they just don't have all their eggs in the Glyph basket, like the Keepers. The Keepers are very used to structuring their methods and general daily lives around Glyphs. If the other Orders haven't lost their glyph knowledge, maybe the Keepers could go to them and adapt themselves to a different use of glyphs, and form a compromise. Although the other groups show no sign of having mastered the use of glyphs, maybe the Keepers could scrounge up a new life for themselves. Those Keepers who are more flexible and adaptable to living in the open, seen and heard, have the best chance for becoming a part of society. If they don't leave the Order altogether, they may smooth the way for the insular others.
Solabusca on 26/2/2008 at 20:29
Quote Posted by jtr7
The Hand Mages have glyphs, the Pagans have glyphs, the Mechanists have glyphs, they just don't have all their eggs in the Glyph basket, like the Keepers. The Keepers are very used to structuring their methods and general daily lives around Glyphs. If the other Orders haven't lost their glyph knowledge, maybe the Keepers could go to them and adapt themselves to a different use of glyphs, and form a compromise. Although the other groups show no sign of having mastered the use of glyphs, maybe the Keepers could scrounge up a new life for themselves. Those Keepers who are more flexible and adaptable to living in the open, seen and heard, have the best chance for becoming a part of society. If they don't leave the Order altogether, they may smooth the way for the insular others.
This is a pretty broad statement - where's the evidence that Hand Mages, Pagans and Mechanists have glyphs?
I mean, CONSTANTINE may have had access to glyphs (see traps in The Sword), but I can't think of any other evidence for these groups having access to them.
I was always under the impression that Glyphs were the Keepers purview alone. I haven't seen evidence in the game that counters that...
.j.
