Would the hand mages fight the undead if there were another cataclysm?

jtr7 on 26/2/2008 at 21:34

I'll post my sources in a bit, but there's a reason I used a lower-case "g" for the others' glyphs. There are some in-game textures, some are not in-game but in the texture folders. I wanted to get people's attention and stir discussion, and I base my statement on real findings. There are images that can be dismissed as meaningless decoration, but I hate those kinds of dismissals. I haven't narrowed it down to canon, yet, and verifying which files are in-game canon, and which are not will change my admittedly-broad statement. Just like I've been working on determining once and for all which sounds and readables are in-game and which are not, though I love just about all of it. Be back with the media later, as I'm on the breakroom computer, not my own.

Solabusca on 26/2/2008 at 21:38

While I do understand that you're usually quite thorough in your searches, I see no in-game evidence of any of these groups (barring the aforementioned traps) using Glyphs (ie, as powers) in the game.

Perhaps they may have stumbled across some (ie, the elemental identifiers used by the Hand Mages), but we don't ever see the level of power that the Keepers show.

.j.

[Edit: And by stumble across some, I mean come across relics featuring them - not learning how to use them; I think the Keepers have to go through a great deal of training to learn exactly HOW to draw each Glyph to channel it's power.]

jtr7 on 26/2/2008 at 21:45

You are exactly correct. If the glyphs the non-Keepers use even have any power, they are nowhere near the Glyph-Mastery of the Keepers, rather they scratch the surface.

I'm leaving the break room, now, and I'll have the sources up in 45-minutes to two hours. Thanks for engaging me in this discussion. :)

jtr7 on 26/2/2008 at 23:42

I'm fully aware of how I'm stretching my imagination, and how obsessive I am. I simply want to find the very edges of canon, and what ideas are generally welcome and generally disdained, without dismissing anything out of personal taste or convenience.:D

Inline Image:

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2714/glyphystuffbx1.png

There's a lot to touch on. I'm primarily interested in the obviously-used and the framed in red. Curiously, the pattern on the hem of the Fire Mages' sleeves is different than the others, which are the same. The Apparition sleeve is the same as the other mages', too. I bring it up because the Fire Mage sleeve hem appears to have writing, instead of loops.

Compare Larkspur's and the Trickster's tattoos with the markings on the Maw of Chaos map. I know the artist was just going for a style for the pagans. The texture file for the Tap Root Ritual uses the word "glyph" in it. The symbol for moss/plantlife is the same as on the Pagan Cornerstones.

The Glyphs scrawled all over the TDS Keeper Compound's ceiling and beams include the Trickster symbol, and the Glyph that replaces the one the Keeper scribed in the Keeper Intro cutscene. I know it just means the artist was going for a Glyphy look.

The markings on the Security Camera Body could be electronic symbols, or inexplicably unreadable instructions.

The overall point, here, is that all these things show supernatural properties or a knowledge of (quantum or meta- or...) physics, and present a danger.

Solabusca on 27/2/2008 at 00:02

I'm not really seeing anything that qualifies as a Glyph (as the keepers use) here - as I've already said, I'm fairly certain that some scholars (as are found within the Hand) may have come across glyph-writing in their travels; but it seems pretty apparent to me that they're not able to make use of the power of said glyphs.

The same holds true for Pagans - yes, they will write odd symbols, but are these the same Glyphs that the Keepers seem to have mastered? I think not - they're small-g glyphs in the sense that they're a pictogram or pictoglyph - a symbol, not an instrument of power. For instance, I don't think that a Pagan, writing the symbol/glyph for Trickster, would be able to summon any power from it.

As to the camera elements - they could be 'trade-marks', symbols of the Mechanist that worked upon them.

.j.

jtr7 on 27/2/2008 at 00:05

:thumb:

So the next question would be about the heavy use of casting spells with hand gestures. The Trickster gestures, the Apparitions gesture, the Hand Mages gesture, and the Hammer/Mechanist Priesthood gestures...and the Keepers draw Glyphs in the air. The Shamans' wands and Hammer Priesthood's holy symbols add variety. Do the swirling gestures have more to them than focusing thought?

Thanks for humoring me, and I appreciate your caution. Don't worry, taffers, nothing that isn't plainly canon won't be treated as such in the ETU. Everything will be accounted for. All speculation will be saved for fanon.

The Magpie on 27/2/2008 at 06:09

Quote Posted by jtr7

Do the swirling gestures have more to them than focusing thought?

I don't see why not. The somatic components of these spells, to borrow the old D&D nomenclature, could well be likened to drawing glyphs in the air. It's fairly commonly used in fantasy, e.g. the sigil drawings of the Death Gate cycle (and its really cool implementation in the spinoff computer game), and the mouse tracing of Black & White and Arx Fatalis.

BTW, I ran through the MageTowers for the first time not long ago. I was disappointed, quite frankly, but I'd better save my grievances for another thread.

--
Larris

jtr7 on 27/2/2008 at 06:34

I know what you mean, Larris.

Okay, so what I'm wondering is: After the Final Glyph was activated are all glyph-related magics unwritten, or only the Glyphs the Keepers mastered? Are runes and uttered inscriptions useless? Hand gestured symbols?

Solabusca on 27/2/2008 at 19:45

Quote Posted by jtr7

Well, watching how the mages, apparitions and priest cast in TDP, TG and TMA - I don't believe it's a 'glyph' gesture - it's more a focussing and directional gesture. Somatic, certainly, but not Glyph in nature.

Traditional fantasy magic in it's modern incarnation usually uses gestures and gobbeldygook words to portray the fact that SOMETHING UNNATURAL IS BEING DONE.

Again, that doesn't indicate a connection to the Keeper's Glyphs.

I'm going to have to go on record as being vehemently AGAINST the suggestion that anyone other than the Keepers is tapping that particular magical forces.

.j.

jtr7 on 27/2/2008 at 19:59

:thumb:

Just so we're clear.:sly:

You can relax, J. These speculations are no indication of my personal beliefs, or even my preferences. Again, a hearty thanks for your contributions.

Now stop getting sick! Those damn dirty community microphones need to stay away from your lips, and bring some Purell for your hands between numbers.