Cronkhite on 28/2/2007 at 03:23
I have to say I am incredibly disappointed with the ghosting method in Thief 3 in particular, and Thief 3 in general. I haven't played the other Thief games, so maybe it's just a Thief 3 issue.
It seems so much easier to simply knock everyone out with gas bombs and gas arrows, or kill them with landmines, fire arrows, or broadhead arrows. Or, even stronger, to use both categories of weapons and lockdown each mission with stunning efficiency. Oh, and if you're in a bind, just toss a flashbomb or six, or throw down an oil flask, and run away, until the opponents magically forget about you in approximately thirty seconds.
The game claims Garrett shouldn't take on more than one opponent at a time, but with the tools available, one can wreck havoc on 10+ opponents easily. I could seriously play Thief like I would play an action FPS--and that's a major flaw, considering that Thief is supposed to be a stealth FPS.
There should have been missions that required ghosting, i.e., no killings, no people unconscious, and no sightings. Grave repercusions should have existed for killing City Watch, thugs, and humans of society in general. There's a vast difference between theft and murder, but, faction statuses notwithstanding, the Thief world doesn't acknowledge the difference at all, and thus the player does as he or she wishes while facing no ramifications of import.
Better yet, ghosting should have given financial and item bonuses. After all, it is both more covert and more difficult to do. Instead, ghosting has been relegated to a challenging but completely unnecessary gaming philosophy of purist Thief players. It's a shame, really, a damn shame.
Muzman on 28/2/2007 at 08:46
Quote Posted by Cronkhite
There should have been missions that
required ghosting, i.e., no killings, no people unconscious, and
no sightings. Grave repercusions should have existed for killing City Watch, thugs, and humans of society in general.
heh, they kinda had this stuff in the first two (particularly the stricter aspects appeared in the second game) but people bitched like crazy.
Dia on 28/2/2007 at 14:53
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There should have been missions that required ghosting, i.e., no killings, no people unconscious, and no sightings.
Most taffers
really don't like being forced to ghost. Right up there with 'timed' missions, imo.
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There's a vast difference between theft and murder, but, faction statuses notwithstanding, the Thief world doesn't acknowledge the difference at all, and thus the player does as he or she wishes while facing no ramifications of import.
In a lot of the FMs there are 'no kill' objectives on harder settings (don't know about the original games - never played on anything other than the easy setting); the ramifications of such being Game Over. Besides, some of the AI absolutely deserve to be done away with. No really.
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Instead, ghosting has been relegated to a challenging but completely unnecessary gaming philosophy of purist Thief players.
Anyone ever tell you you'd make a great Hammerite?
RavynousHunter on 28/2/2007 at 16:21
Ive had guards end up killing each other, but rarely have I come across a guard commiting suicide. Ive had the occasional Guard/Bandit moronically leap into a deep pool of water and drown himself quite a few times before in T1/2, and sometimes, due to an anomaly I call "pot holes", accidentally falling thru solid surfaces and either fall into nothingness or water. :ebil:
Elentari on 28/2/2007 at 20:46
Quote Posted by RavynousHunter
Ive had guards end up killing
each other, but rarely have I come across a guard commiting suicide. Ive had the occasional Guard/Bandit moronically leap into a deep pool of water and drown himself quite a few times before in T1/2, and sometimes, due to an anomaly I call "pot holes", accidentally falling
thru solid surfaces and either fall into nothingness or water. :ebil:
Yeah, same. It TDS, I don't think I saw much of that either. I DID get it once, in the clock tower, where on that first level, that first guard saw me, came running at me and got whacked by the pendulum. . .and of course collapsed in a bloody heap. Unfortunately, the second guard heard it, screamed and came running. . .right at me, and I ended up having to reload. Never got it again. But in T2, in particular, I'd often come up on an area, knowing there was supposed to be guards, finding nothing and after a brief inspection discovering the guards had walked off into the water and were laying down there dead and drowned. Occasionally I've even been able to lure them off, or see them just slip off during a patrol.
And yeah, sometimes during chase or something the guards will shoot each other dead. Or. . .my favourite? Luring haunts or spiders over, then hiding and watching them fight each other. :ebil: Specially those spiders on Davidson's ship in T2. Hopping on top of the crate, leaning over and opening the door ten watching the guards go wild. *snickers*
Gotta love a game where the AI can kill each other, committ suicide and other random acts.
Cronkhite on 28/2/2007 at 21:30
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Most taffers really don't like being forced to ghost.
I must have missed the "Taffers Poll" from the 90s to 2007. You clearly have the data. Snideness aside, video games based on popularity may be wise from a financial perspective, but does popularity equate to quality? Not always. As an American, I've seen "artists" such as Britney Spears outstrip and outsell musicians of immeasurably greater skill. Video games are not greatly different, as modern day games increasingly focus on graphics over gameplay, candy over content. The point being that popularity means nothing of substance in our apparent disagreement over Thief 3.
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Besides, some of the AI absolutely deserve to be done away with. No really.
And deity Garrett is the blade & hand of judgment! It's not that you're wrong, it's just that it's incredibly unrealistic to expect Garrett's murders and slayings to essentially unaffect the player's gameplay, just because certain AI "deserve" to be killed. There should be consequences for playing Thug, instead of playing Thief.
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Anyone ever tell you you'd make a great Hammerite?
Anyone ever tell you you'd makesie a greatsie Pagan? You sure debate like one. Yay, ad hominems are fun!
Dia on 28/2/2007 at 22:39
Cronkhite: it's a game.
Lighten up.
It's never a good idea to burst into a forum with your guns cocked & loaded. Stop taking yourself so seriously and lurk more.
Do a few searches on the subject of playing preferences while you're at it.
Cronkhite on 28/2/2007 at 22:53
Right, it's a game, so why personally insult me by comparing me to the fanatically ideological Hammerites just because you disagreed with my post? A post, I might add, which personally targeted no one. Follow your own "lighten up" advice, and I'll follow suit. As far as lurking: no, thanks. I'll leave that to the meek. My opinions will be expressed.
Dia on 28/2/2007 at 23:37
Quote Posted by Cronkhite
Right, it's a game, so why personally insult me by comparing me to the fanatically ideological Hammerites just because you disagreed with my post?
I was just joking. I realize that facial expressions and voice tones don't translate well on the Internet, but it was my way of teasing you for sounding so super serious. If you'd been coming around these parts longer than a couple days you'd have known I was just playing with you. Ergo - lurk more.
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As far as lurking: no, thanks. I'll leave that to the meek. My opinions will be expressed.
Right then; hope you've got plenty of flame-retardant undies on hand. :p ;)
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I DID get it once, in the clock tower, where on that first level, that first guard saw me, came running at me and got whacked by the pendulum. . .and of course collapsed in a bloody heap.
Same thing happened to me Elentari. Laughed so hard my tummy ached!
ercles on 1/3/2007 at 00:05
Quote Posted by Cronkhite
I must have missed the "Taffers Poll" from the 90s to 2007. You clearly have the data. Snideness aside, video games based on popularity may be wise from a financial perspective, but does popularity equate to quality? Not always. As an American, I've seen "artists" such as Britney Spears outstrip and outsell musicians of immeasurably greater skill. Video games are not greatly different, as modern day games increasingly focus on graphics over gameplay, candy over content. The point being that popularity means nothing of substance in our apparent disagreement over Thief 3.
You missed the point, numbnuts. The taffers in question are not the bunch of indiscerning fans that you make them out as. This is a forum largely full of people who hold thief very dearly to heart and have been playing since T: TDP (unlike you, I might add). These are people who know thief, and many people have made it known that they didn't enjoy "Casing" in T:TMA due to its constraints. Thief is often lauded because of its open ended mission design with problems that can be solved a number of ways, one of these involving killing everything in sight. Restricting peoples' options (one thing many people think happened in Deadly Shadows) would detract from the experience, imho.
And as a general point, it is a good idea to feel out the peculiarities of a forum before you dive in, both as a general courtesy and to save embarrassment on your part. It's not hard, and will help you out in the long run.
