PeeperStorm on 19/10/2013 at 04:48
The government shutdown makes a lot more sense from a cynical hardball politics point of view when you ask who benefited the most from the entire kerfuffle. The Democrats benefit, obviously. They gain both in internal unity and public opinion as compared to the Republicans. They knew that there was zero chance of being forced to back down over Obamacare, and that most of the negative fallout would hit the Republicans, and so had no reason to budge.
The Tea Party segment of the Republicans also had no reason to budge, since they saw this as a winning situation for themselves whether they succeeded or not. If by some miracle they managed to overturn Obamacare, they'd hurt the Democrats, solidify their own position, and be in a stronger position for future activity. If they failed, they'd have hurt the less conservative Republicans without any damage to themselves (after all, their own supporters like the idea of the confrontation), leading to either a stronger position within the Republican party, or a weaker Republican party which might then be displaced by a new, more conservative, conservative party at some future date.
The Tea Party politicians don't see the Democrats as their primary enemy, except in the long run. Their shorter term goal is to displace as many mainstream and moderate Republicans as possible (whom they refer to as "progressive Republicans", "liberal Republicans", and other similar terms), so that the result will be, one way or another, a much more conservative party to oppose the Democrats. This isn't a new idea for the Tea Party, and isn't something that one hears much about in the mainstream media, but luminaries such as Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity are pushing the concept currently the form of a "Defund the G.O.P" movement.
Queue on 20/10/2013 at 04:23
Here's a quote I got off the news wire, regarding comments made by Ted Cruz:
Quote:
"The House Republicans marched into battle courageously," the first-term senator told the Texas Federation of Republican Women’s state convention on Saturday, "and the Senate Republicans should have come in like the cavalry to support them."
Instead, said Cruz, "a significant chunk of Senate Republicans came like the Air Force and began bombing the House Republicans, our own troops."
I'm sorry, but could someone please tell me when did members of the United States Congress declare war against, well, members of the United States Congress? I feel a bit ashamed that somewhere along the line, I missed the details of The Battle of Capital Hill.
I just hope there was a huge body count.
Once again, this is why Americans hate other Americans: we are conditioned by those who lead to be divisive and openly hostile toward anyone
I don't agree with, or anyone who doesn't agree with
me. It's like the ridiculous dogmatic stance of the Dominionist Christians, currently trying to make a power grab in this country, who view other Christians that don't agree with them as an enemy right alongside the likes of Satan, Muslims, and free-thought. Aren't you guys supposed to all be Christians...all for spreading love and peace and understanding...feeding the poor...shit like that?
I swear to any-sort-of-fucking-plausible-deity-out-there, this whole 'you're either with us or against us' mentality of these God-bothering lunatics will ultimately be the end of this country.
... and, sadly, a part of me can't wait for the violence to erupt in the streets.
demagogue on 20/10/2013 at 04:30
This isn't France. Americans don't take to the streets.
They hoist "Don't Tread on Me" flags on their Humvees.
Queue on 20/10/2013 at 04:49
Well--that's sort of taking to the streets.
... and all the little, Pleakley-headed bimbos that drive those Humvees around can't even manage to park the damned things correctly in a parking space. :mad:
faetal on 20/10/2013 at 12:59
The funny thing as well is that the US is supposed to be all pro-democracy, yet the whole country (from the outside) seems to loathe ideological heterogeneity, which is kind of the thing that democracy is supposed to nurture and account for.
Queue on 20/10/2013 at 13:42
The U.S. is pro-democracy in other countries. And here is the rub: We, ourselves, are a Republic...not really a Democracy. We use the democratic process to an extent, but can never be a true Democracy under our laws.
nickie on 20/10/2013 at 13:43
Quote Posted by Queue
Well--that's sort of taking to the streets.
... and all the little, Pleakley-headed bimbos that drive those Humvees around can't even manage to park the damned things correctly in a parking space. :mad:
Just for that dearest, I'm sending you a present. But take care, it's not suitable for public viewing. :)
demagogue on 20/10/2013 at 14:00
For the record though, democracy actually more or less worked here I think, if you step back and look at the situation. The Reps lost the last presidential election, lost the votes to stop the Health Care Act passing, lost the court battle against it, and didn't have the votes to repeal the Health Care Act now... So they, or the Tea-Party fringe of it, staged this "shutdown" farce, and because they didn't have the votes or public support to get away with that either, it predictably failed too. And now they've never been as weak or fragmented in recent memory.
It looks like the machinations of democracy have been doing exactly what they're supposed to in keeping things on a level keel, even when the kook contingent starts stamping & heehawing in the rafters.
faetal on 20/10/2013 at 14:05
Well, pro-democracy in other countries so long as they choose a government which is sympathetic to a US global agenda. Else it is bad democracy, just ask Guatemala.
demagogue on 20/10/2013 at 14:21
It's not the 80s anymore, or even the mid-2000s. I think the US is pretty fatigued at this point on the whole global agenda thing... We're not anxious to really intervene in Syria or Iran, and seem content that we're losing/have already lost Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, and possibly Egypt. They've got dysfunctional democracies that sort of but don't really work and maybe they'll work themselves out another 3 generations or so, but we got them turned the right way as best we could and as long as terrorists aren't landing on our shores it's tolerable.
As much as I can read the air, and I might have it wrong, but I suspect the US wants nothing more than to turn inwards and let countries let themselves go to hell without having to care or even notice, as long as any violence doesn't affect us and we at least could see they gave liberal democracy the old college try & will maybe think it wasn't so bad 50 years down the road... Not that that's the best outcome either.
